Will Interviews West Loh

Speakers:
West: West Loh
Will: Will Swayne

Will: Hi, it’s Will Swayne from Marketing-Results.com.au. And I’m lucky enough to have with me West Loh on the line with me.

Hey West!

West: Good day, Will!

Will: How are you doing?

West: Sensational and improving. If it goes any better, I’ll be worried.

Will: Excellent. Nice upbeat response.

Of course I’m on the line here with West because he’s someone that I’ve asked to interview as a successful internet entrepreneur. And particularly, we’re going to be looking into how West got started in internet business, how he went from basically being like a student and a regular 9 5 worker to actually being a full time internet entrepreneur. And it’s part of the series I’ve been doing on this topic.

So West, why don’t we get started and perhaps you’d care to give us a bit of your history…perhaps your education and your work background. And we’ll take it from there.

West: No worries. I started with a lot of academic background, Will. And I don’t have any regrets of course. But looking at my wall right now, there are three shiny degrees hanging up there. It was a bit of a labor of love studying intensely at university. And being brought up in an Asian culture, the philosophy—and a lot of your listeners, I’m sure, and your clients are Asians as well, probably have a good understanding and appreciation of this—that the parents are always pushing their children to study a profession and find a good well paying job and just bust your ass for fifty years and have a sort of semi comfortable retirement.

And so that was kind of the road that I started on and I’ve always been interested in. I’ve always been fit, I’ve always been active. I’ve always been a good tennis player. And one of the things I wanted to do was become a professional tennis player. And when I realized that I wasn’t going to make it because there were a lot bigger guys, a lot of stronger guys and I just wasn’t growing at the rate they were growing so they had power—I was really fast but I was never able to match their power—I decided to study human movements and study how the body worked and exercise physiology of the human body and go from that perspective. So I really enjoyed that. That was four years full time. Then I just kept on studying after that and sort of got addicted to it.

And I started studying a Master’s degree in Exercise Science working with Special Populations, working with cardiac disease, obesity, diabetes…all these different types of populations in regard to exercise and how exercise can help them maintain and get back to a high quality of life.

And after that—if that wasn’t enough—I went and did another Master’s degree in Business. So an MBA which is kind of a little bit more where I’m headed. I came across some people in my life that I respected as mentors and as professionals and they had all done MBAs. And one day I was working up a thought, “I’m going to do it.” So I applied two to three times to do it and I got rejected two to three times because I didn’t have enough work experience. You need to actually have seven years full time work experience or some sort of weird combination which, I did not have.

So I went out and did the hard yards and then I actually reapplied again fourth or fifth time, I believe, and I got accepted. And that was another two or two and a bit years after that.

And looking back, if I had my time all over again, I’d probably have done it a little differently. But as I said, no, I certainly have no regrets. I’ve learned a ton just about myself, about problem solving, about how to work with people because you interact with some very high professionals. But I guess the only drawback with that is all these people going through the MBA looking at getting a higher paying job. So they’re usually managers or they’re usually engineers wanting to take a managerial role and they’re all looking to just increase their pay by ten, fifteen grand, twenty grand a year. But they’re still good thinkers and good problem solvers and you can learn a lot from them because obviously, many of them come from all sorts of professions like doctors and lawyers and all sorts of stuff.

So after that…

Will: Hang on. How old were you when you actually got into the MBA?

West: I probably was twenty six, roughly.

Will: Okay. That’s pretty damn young to be doing an MBA.

West: It is. And as I said, I got knocked back three years before that each year. And I also was probably the youngest person going through it in my year. The average age is, I believe, thirty five or so and people up to fifty are still doing it.

Will: So you were there showing them how it’s done, West?

West: Well, not really. I mean I had to gain a lot of respect from the people there. Initially, when people were selecting groups and people were getting to know the people in their classes, I was tending to start always off on the back foot. I’m twenty nine now and I look very young. And when I was twenty six, I looked even younger obviously.

Will: So everyone was sort of saying, “Oh here’s the kid.”

West: Yeah. “He’s just a little high school kid doing the MBA. What can I possibly learn from this guy?” But what I found was as soon as we got started talking and I started telling people what I did and actually adding value to the project or the group interaction, they’d sit up and value my opinions. So…

Will: It was all good. Excellent. You’ve definitely got a pretty strong background in academia. I presume between the time when you were sort of applying for the MBA and the time when you got in, you were actually working.

West: I was working. Yup. That’s right. I worked as a personal trainer for awhile. And I just love keeping people fit, healthy, motivated; inspiring and motivating people. I became one of Brisbane’s most prolific trainers. I was training 100 150 sessions a fortnight, just full on from 4:35 in the morning and I’d be going until the gym closes at 10 at night. Although I actually wasn’t working out, at the time I was physically and emotionally absolutely drained for the period that I did that. Because when you’re training someone, it’s actually quite intense, especially training people who are very hard trainers. A lot of women that I trained came more for the emotional kind of feedback and nourishment that they get from talking to someone; they just have someone’s attention for thirty minutes to an hour.

So I did that for awhile and really enjoyed it. But I realized that that model of trading time for money—one hour of my time for how many dollars—wasn’t going to cut it. And that was kind of an acceleration for me to jump online later on.

But I did do a few things after that. I also worked in corporate health for BP, consulting their corporate professionals and executives and technicians on site at Pinkenba. That was a lot of fun. Seeing all this people earning big, big bucks but absolutely doing nothing for their health, it was quite scary really. I mean if you get paid 250 grand a year and you’re massively overweight, you’ve got high blood pressure, it’s just not worth it man. You can pay me $10 million in a year and take away my health, I wouldn’t even consider it. So that was a big learning lesson for me.

I also worked in a health club as an exercise therapist, which means people who come in and have special rehabilitation problems and they have had a serious injury like people who are pregnant or people who need special care to come in that not just your average trainer can’t usually deal with, people who have specific needs, I would deal with those guys and we were sort of a notch above the gym trainer, so to speak.

And I worked in a few other jobs here and there but those were probably the ones of note.

Will: Okay. So you did that, you got through the MBA and maybe had some work experience after that. And at some point you got in internet business. Tell us how that happened.

West: I guess for me, I received a letter in the post from a guy called Ed Dale. And it was about—he called it at the time the Underachiever Method, where you could just basically create an information product online, an ebook. And at the time, you could just pump out some ads and that would sell, that would sell like hotcakes. And you didn’t have to do any extra work. You’d set up shop and internet was open for business twenty hours a day, seven days a week and it just sort of takes over and that was a little business on its own.

So I was interested in that concept initially. Obviously, these days, things have changed massively since then. Maybe there are businesses that exist that just takes over but it’s my belief now that businesses need to be nurtured and continually optimized if they’re going to be successful. But that was initially how I got into it.

So I committed a portion of my life to learning about online marketing, immersed myself in information overload massively and learned the basic skills that I needed and found the mentors that I needed. And yeah, it’s all sort of gone from there. I guess, to this day, I’m sort of still going and it’s paying the bills. And obviously, any business can be improved but I’m having fun. I’m having tons of fun doing it.

Will: Excellent. So would it be fair to say that your motivation for getting involved in internet marketing was to break out from the time for money model and get into some passive income generating streams?

West: Absolutely. Ever since I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad—which was many, many years ago now—that really accelerated my paradigm shift. Because at the time, I was wanting to like own a gym or become a CEO/Manager of a gym or some sort of corporation after I finish my MBA. But after I read his (Robert Kiyosaki) book, I just didn’t want to work for anyone anymore…at all. To this day, my parents can’t understand that way of thinking. It’s just absolutely not in their paradigm to believe that someone can not actually want to get a job. You know, it’s tough because you love your parents but I just don’t share what I do with them anymore because they don’t understand it.

But you’re dead right. I wanted leverage. Kiyosaki talks about assets creating, you know, investing your time in something but having it pay you back forever. And that’s sort of a criteria in anything that I do now, is that whenever I enter into something, it’s got to pay me back ongoing forever for that one bit of effort to put in. So obviously, a lot of things that people put to me, I don’t take on board because it doesn’t fit that criteria. And I’ve been offered many high paying jobs, six figure packages and stuff like that but it just doesn’t fit the criteria so I turn them all down.

Will: Okay. So that’s interesting. So you’ve got a set criteria that the sort of work or business ventures that you want to get into…?

West: Yeah.

Will: And you don’t deviate from those criteria despite attractive offers. Because one of the biggest problems people face is that they set rules of how they want to operate and then a week later, they get a bit of an offer that might be a bit outside the rules—particularly when you’re trying to build a business—you’re trying to build a business and all of a sudden someone comes back and say, “Hey look, I’ve got some consulting work for you here and it’s $75-$100 an hour.” You know, it can be very tempting to go back and sort of start getting into that sort of work and then giving up the main focus.

West: And I understand that people have to pay their bills and have families to feed and that sort of stuff so I’m not suggesting to anyone listening to the call to quit their jobs and just go take a massive risk like that.

I think Kiyosaki talks about building a business in your spare time. And instead of watching TV and going out and partying hard and drinking or things that you do that you do for pleasure, make it a pleasurable thing to build an extra business. Even if you’ve only got one or two hours extra a day and maybe a couple more in the weekend, that can really all build up into a significant venture if you put effort, time and commitment into it.

Will: Yeah. And I think there’s sort of an exercise analogy that I heard that equally applies to business building. This might resonate with you, West. But I was listening to a DVD called The Wheel of Life—a little bit like The Secret and of the guy on that is an expert in exercise and that sort of thing. And he said that the average Australian watches TV for about twenty hours a week and yet the number one excuse why people don’t exercise is that they don’t have any time.

West: Exactly. That’s pretty crazy.

Will: And I think in business building, it’s exactly the same. People sit in front of a box for twenty hours a week and then they go, “Oh yeah, you know, I never have time to get anything else started,” and ten years down the track they’re still in the same place where they were previously.

West: And I guess, you know, we both went to Tony Robbins together and he’s a master of getting you into a peak state and really pushing your cords. “And when anything becomes easy, it becomes a must for you” and that’s straight from Tony’s mouth. And if you make building a business or having an extra income stream or quitting your job an absolute must, then it just becomes easier for you. So you just need to find a compelling reason to create that. You’ll wake up and watching TV won’t even enter your mind.

Another analogy I just heard recently that really resonated with me was if you put a frog in warm water and you bring it to a boil, it will actually stay in the water and die. But if you put a frog into boiling hot water, it’ll jump out. And that’s a great analogy for what happens to most people. They’re just sort of in the water and it’s getting hotter and hotter and hotter and before they know it, they’re 55 and they haven’t really done much and they’re dead, financially speaking; or even emotionally speaking.

Will: If not physically. That’s an interesting perspective.

Why don’t we go on to discuss some of your internet ventures and some of the challenges you’ve faced and how you’ve gotten to where you are. But my understanding—and I might not be totally filled in on the whole picture—but my understanding is you spent some time working on, sort of, the underachiever method, basically niche ebook sites.

West: Yeah, I did.

Will: And then your main project or your main business at the moment is money-mind-set.com.

West: Yes. That’s a membership site that I went into with the Grants. I was at one of their seminars and they put out this tender for a joint venture relationship. And I didn’t even apply for it. I just went there and I learned tons but I didn’t apply for it. But Andrew called me up personally and said, “Listen West, we really like to work with you. Why don’t we meet up and at least talk it through.” And yeah, it worked out from there.

So the site, it’s basically about how people let their own—what we call—inner programs or subconscious blockages, the way we’ve been conditioned from children, all these things that crop into our head to do with money, how to identify those things that do crop up and then how to eliminate them so they don’t keep holding you back into the future and they don’t keep you from plateauing in your income levels. And it’s based on Andrew’s own journey. If you haven’t heard of Andrew and Daryl Grant, they speak at the World Internet Summit, they’ve gone from zero to seven figures in probably less than three years. They’re doing amazing things on and offline. One of their major projects is membership sites.

So they basically share their journey, every technique they did, every exercise they did. I went to Andrew’s house. I spent three days with the guy and I just picked his brain for three days. And we collated all the information. It’s delivered sequentially. And it’s kicking along really well now. We haven’t really marketed online massively yet and that’s our next stage.

But we’ve done a lot of offline work. I’ve done some speaking, Andrew’s done some speaking and the site’s getting some serious momentum.

Will: Excellent. I think so many questions have popped up there in my mind. It’s drilling down a bit further. So would it be fair to say that your initial projects with ebooks and this sort of thing, was that financially lucrative for you or was it more of like a university course, you know, a real life uni course on internet marketing concepts that may not have borne tons of fruit?

West: Yeah. They didn’t make money for me. I wouldn’t call them lucrative by any means. I still have a couple that do make money for me to this day that I don’t touch at all. I few of them I had partners on, a few of them I did on my own and I got rid or sold some of them. But I would say my main benefit from doing those sites was…the concept was really simple: you need to get someone or yourself to write an information book then you basically got to create a website and then you’ve got to market it. So it’s really a simple concept. Like some of the concepts online that I have right now are really, really complex and there are a thousand stages to the equation.

For me, learning about the different components, you know you’ve got to learn about website creation. You’ve got to learn about marketing. You’ve got to learn about email, autoresponders—just really basic stuff. It teaches you kind of fast how to learn and implement all that sort of stuff.

And recently, I’ve started teaching people how to build a team around them that can do that stuff rather than everyone doing it all themselves. Because in today’s market—I don’t know about you guys but I’m sure it happens with you as well—but I’m just flooded with information and opportunities and people wanting to do this and people wanting to do that and the tasks that you need done are never ending. They just keep piling up. And you always need to be looking at what your time is worth and what you’re actually spending your time on and how much you can outsource that. If you spend your time doing something that you can outsource for cheap or that’s worth less than your time, then you’re effectively leaving money on the table.

Will: Absolutely. That’s a very important point, especially when you’re doing multiple projects concurrently.

West: Definitely.

Will: And how many niche websites did you actually build or how many did you hold concurrently or…?

West: I think probably—it’s a couple of years ago now—probably three to four max. They’re actually a lot of work, Will.

Will: I hear you. I hear you. A little bit of a line has been sold, I think, by the internet marketing industry where it’s just like, oh yeah, yeah, you go into Google and you do a bit of a keyword research, identify a niche, you check up a page, it takes you half an hour to get a page up, people come in and they fill in a survey and yup, it’s all good to go. So you go into Elance and you pay someone a couple hundred bucks to write some copy for you, put that up and the money starts coming in. Put a bit of Google adwords…

It might have been a little bit like that sort of fifteen years ago when these strategies sort of first started. But now that’s a recently hard game to play I think.

West: It is.

Will: People make money out of it and I think, essentially the Grants, my understanding is they got started being in ebooks.

West: Yeah, and they’re really doing well in it.

Will: They’re doing well with it? So you can?

West: Yeah. You can do it.

Will: But it’s like anything else; you’ve got to be good. There was a time, I think, when you didn’t actually have to be that good. Now you’ve got to be really good.

West: Exactly. And it’s competitive now. Some of the craziest, craziest niches that you would never think would be touched are being divided into sub niches; and those are being divided into sub niches. It’s like absolutely insane, Will. It’s getting really competitive.

Although I did speak to a gentleman the other day who’s really gone on top of the web 2 arena. And he said that there’s still only a very small percentage of people online, comparatively, if you look at the real population. And there’s still a huge, huge way to go. So it’s still at the tip of the iceberg according to this gentleman. Although for me, at least, I feel that it’s very competitive right now.

Will: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s a little bit of both. I mean there are sort of opposing forces out there. The more people online, the more markets, the more customers there are to go around. But there’s a lot of people going online and trying to do this as well so you’ve got to be good. And I think that’s why people listening to this type of call are really doing that. Because they want to get educated about pitfalls to avoid and how to emulate the success.

Okay. I’d like to move on in some detail to talk about Money Mind Set because I think that’s a site that people listening to the call can learn a lot from. So you’ve explained how you originally started this up as a joint venture with the Grants. So can you tell us a little bit all about the business model behind this? It’s a membership site. And how does that work?

West: Okay. So some membership sites you join, you’ll get everything when you sign up. And you’ll log in and there’ll be a dashboard and you just get a ton of videos, a ton of audios, a ton of this. You go through it at your own leisure. The Grants actually did a lot of research. They flew to the States and they went to a few membership bootcamps and talked to leaders in the industry on what was the innovative concepts and where they saw those concepts going. And the model they came up with was to let someone join the site, give them an award once they’ve joined, but then sequentially deliver the information over a period of however long—six months, twelve months. People won’t feel like they’re being ripped off because they’re getting a good selection of goodies when they join up but they also don’t get the whole kitchen sink in one hit so they can just quit and leave and get a refund and still keep the product.

Will: When you say goodies, what do you mean by that?

West: We just give them some bonuses. We give them some interviews that we’ve done. We give them some workbooks and some good books that we recommend. And we give them a whole bunch of other joint venture offers that have been given specifically for people who have signed up for our program that aren’t available anywhere else.

Will: Okay. So it’s pdf materials, mp3 audios…

West: Videos and some access to some of other sites, maybe, that are paid, that normally people would pay for, we give them accesses as members to this site.

It’ll cost you nothing extra. I mean you’ve got to look at stuff that doesn’t cost you a lot extra but adds a lot of perceived value.

And when people sign up, it’s like $49 a month or something. If you actually look at our sign up page, we’ve got a ton of value there. We’re giving away tickets to Andrew and Daryl’s personal workshops that people normally pay the Grants to come to. They’re giving away Mentor Toolbox Workshop tickets. We give away personal phone, one on one time. We give away a whole heap of other stuff as well. It’s like for $49 bucks, it just becomes a no brainer.

So whenever we’re putting together an offer or something we’d like to sell to people, it’s just got to be something that people look at and think, ‘Wow, I’m getting massive, massive value for money.’

Will: Right. Okay. And I can see here on the page that it’s a $49 a month site.

West: Yeah, that’s correct.

Will: And that’s US or Australian?

West: That’s Australian.

Will: Okay. So a lot of people on the net are charging US but I guess…would it be fair to say that most of your clients are Aussie clients?

West: At this stage. We haven’t actually done any online marketing yet so…

Will: Okay. Well that’s interesting too.

West: We’re looking at really pumping that up as our next level.

Will: So basically, people come to the site, they opt in. When you join up, is it just $49 bucks to start off or you’ve got a trial of something…?

West: It depends. I have done some joint ventures with some people where we’ve offered them the first month free and anyone who stays, they get—I think—it’s 45% or 50% of the income that comes in from people who have stayed through them; the first month being free. I did that with a gentleman named Kurek Ashley, who’s a motivational speaker. And he used to be a Hollywood actor. He recently had a book launch and we offered that as part of anyone who bought his book. So that was really good.

And yeah, it just depends on the person. But if you were to come through the actual site itself, it would be $49 upfront and $49 a month thereafter.

Will: Okay. And what’s the membership software that you’re using to run the backend?

West: We’re using aMember to protect all the content. We’re also using AWeber. We’ve come up with a system where aMember can talk to AWeber. So when someone stops or cancels in aMember, that automatically cancels in AWeber and likewise. So it’s been a pretty kind of intense labor of love. I didn’t actually do that. The Grants struck a relationship with some techie who was able to fuse that model together and that’s the model we’re actually using.

So the AWeber would deliver emails to the URLs which are protected. And then the people will need to log in to their aMember account to access the materials.

Will: Okay. For people who don’t know, aMember, it’s a membership site software. But I think it could basically be described as a very advanced login access program.

West: Yeah. It protects folders. And as far as I’m aware it’s pretty tough to crack or get around. So it’s worth its weight in gold and we happily pay our aMember fees.

Will: Okay. Good. So it’s worth the money.

West: It’s worth the money, yeah. Obviously, you’ve got to invest in something if you’re looking to build a business.

Will: Absolutely.

Now the model behind this membership site is it’s basically $49 bucks a month forever? And you keep developing content every month? Or…?

West: Yes, that’s correct.

Will: Okay. And how long has this site been going for?

West: It’s been going probably about one and a half years now. Initially, I started developing the content myself through all the information that I got from Andrew. And so I just basically interviewed him and we shot some videos and we did a ton of stuff. So we had a lot of content.

I was happy to get a feel for everything, how to put the content into the website, how to protect it, how to upload it to aWeber or their email autoresponder. I don’t do that anymore. I have someone who does all that for me now. So I might just say I’d like an e class on blah blah blah blah blah, shoot it off to my ghostwriter. And obviously, I’ll direct them and I’ll make sure that it’s good content because, you know, the last thing you want is for them to be pumping out bad content and you losing members due to that. So it has to get my seal of approval. It has to get Andrew’s seal of approval before we go live on any of it. And thus far, we’ve had some really good feedback on the content because it works. People follow the program and they get results.

Will: Excellent. Let’s say I’m twelve months into my membership and I’m just getting the monthly content, what would I expect? What would I get for $49 bucks?

West: The original course we envisaged to be between three and six months. And that was a course teaching you exactly how the mind works when it comes to money and what exercises that worked for Andrew and Daryl. Of course, every exercise isn’t going to work for everyone so we want to hit different aspects of identifying and removing subconscious blocks.

So once that time is up, we then focus on more general stuff to do with money. I actually interview Wealthy and successful people. I’ve interviewed probably 15 to 20 of Australia’s wealthiest people so far, ranging from net worth of between $5 and $50 million. And some of them are on the BW Rich List. And I just pick their brains and say, “What do you do? How did you do it? What do you recommend to people?”

And so we try to add a lot of value where we can aside from the actual e classes. I also have been to a lot of seminars and I paid tens of thousands of dollars to go them. And as part of the site, I actually share all my notes. So I’ve got them all nicely done so people don’t have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to go to these seminars and they have all the notes that are available to them.

We also summarize a lot of the latest business mindset and success books. So a 500 page book, we really got down to 10 20 pages and we let them have access to those things as well. I just share anywhere where we can we feel would help someone get happier, healthier or wealthier, we’ll throw into the program.

Will: Okay. So basically…I mean you have to be a bit of a guru in content creation, don’t you? I mean the content’s out there but what you’re doing is really, you’re packaging, processing, pre digesting and basically delivering it to a group on a cost effective basis for the individual. But of course, the effort required to do this on a month by month basis is obviously large but spread across a large number of members.

West: Yeah. I mean initially, it was a lot of effort. But now I have a system going where I’ve got a couple of team members who I work with, who are very good at what they do. I don’t actually upload any of the stuff anymore. I very rarely edit any of the stuff anymore. I rarely deal with customer complaints or customer service anymore. It’s close—it’s not 100 percent automated—but it’s pretty close. And the good news for me is I now have time to do other stuff, attack other projects or if I want to focus on the online part of this business, then I can do that.

Andrew also wants me more on stage. He wants me speaking a little more and converting from the stage a little more. And that’s something I’m excited to do as well. I just need to definitely improve my profile so that I can get recognized. Because you know, you just can’t invite yourself to certain events; you need to be asked and you need some sort of reputation before people will start taking you seriously.

Will: Okay. So it’s building your personal preeminence basically.

West: Yeah, absolutely.

Will: Okay. So it’s interesting what you said before. You said you haven’t done much online promotion. So how actually have you got the members you’ve got so far?

West: Actually, the Grants were sitting on a list of about a thousand people. They actually had this program, the Money Mindset, probably six to twelve months before we even launched it. And at a particular seminar, they actually sold it without it having been created at all. So they said, “Guys, we’re looking at creating this program. If you’re interested, fill out one of these forms, put your details in and we’ll hook you up as soon as it launches.” And we had like 150 people sign up, pay—pretty much—to a program that wasn’t created.

And so initially when we decided what we were going to do together, Andrew said, “Listen, I’ve got all these people and this program. We’ve already got tons of members lining up for it. Are you interested in this area?” And I said yes and he said, “We’re lucky in that we’ve got all these people who are interested. Let’s do it.” So that was our initial surge of people.

Will: So you actually presold the program prior to development, established there was a market…

West: Exactly. And then created it.

Will: That’s a very smart way to do it obviously. Because 99% of people who are trying to get started in internet marketing will make a product, put it out there and, ‘Hmmm. No one wants to buy my product.’

West: Yes. That’s a good lesson. And I’ve fallen trap to that as well. I’m not claiming in any way, shape or form to be the be all and end all. I was lucky on my part because Andrew had already done that. So I guess where I came in and where my smarts were was to team up with the Grants.

Will: Right. Okay. So it sounds like sort of the Grants provided the bit of the profile and the promotion and some of the resources behind the site and you have basically come in as a partner and you basically project managed the whole lot.

West: Definitely. Initially. Now I have people who do that for me. So it’s kind of running on its own. But you’re dead right. They were smart enough to realize that they couldn’t do it on their own. I was smart to realize I couldn’t do it on my own.

I think, you know, online…it really does pay to nurture your relationships with people. And I think another interview that you’ve done with Yaro and Gideon is a perfect example of that. They kept in touch for a long time but hadn’t really done or considered anything serious. And Yaro always kept in touch with Gideon and Gideon always kept in touch. And over time, opportunities arose and now they’re doing really well with their membership site.

Will: Exactly. And I think it’s a bit of an area that a lot of people underemphasize: creating real human relationships with real people on the internet and then leveraging those relationships.

West: Definitely. And if you look at all the top internet marketers, they’re all doing joint ventures. It’s like an inner circle mastermind where everyone’s joint venturing and helping everyone out and everyone else is getting left behind. If you’re second, third or fourth tier, you’re leagues below the guys who are killing it at the top.

I know guys that you work with, Will—Rich Schefren and Jay Abraham—they’re masters at that. They have hundreds of people praising them and promoting them. But the thing is, those people who are promoting them are still making money. So it’s a win win.

Will: Absolutely.

Okay. So where to from here? What’s West going to be doing for the next 6 12 months?

West: Good question, Will. And it’s a very timely question because I’ve been asking this myself—that question—leading into the New Year. But I think for me, as long as I’m enjoying what I’m doing and I’m waking up passionate about what I’m doing, I feel l’m on the right track…if at any point in time where I wake up and I just feel that the passion’s gone or I’m not enjoying what I’m doing, then you need to listen closely to what your body and your emotions are telling you. I think for me, it’s not so much about chasing the money or making a ton of cash, it’s more about being able to help a lot of people and doing stuff that’s worthwhile and really adds value to both your life and the lives of people around you. And I think with that kind of philosophy, no matter what you do, even if you don’t become a multi billionaire, you can still live a pretty happy quality of life.

Will: In terms of the site, basically you’re going to be moving more of the promotion online as you mentioned?

West: Yeah. That’s definitely what I’d like to do with that particular site. We’ve actually just started to get on YouTube and we’ve just started to get some article marketing happening. One lesson I’ll put out to the listeners there is that you always need to look at the biggest bang for your buck, basically. There’s an unlimited amount of things you can do for your task. And if you had a hundred people who live a hundred years and working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you still couldn’t do everything that you wanted to do. So a great way to do it is to look at what things are going to get you the best value and just really focus on those things. And ask around. Ask your friends what’s worked for them. And do some research online, see what people are saying. Don’t try something obscure or speculative and waste a ton of time on technical things that may hold you back because you don’t have the skill to do it. And I think if you can become like a strategist and like a general of the army rather than a soldier in the trenches…that would be a really good lesson to take away from today.

Will: Absolutely. That’s a brilliant thing to keep in mind when you’re trying to build an internet business. Obviously, as you did and as most people did, you started off learning the basics, the core skills and doing things yourself so you understand them. And as you understood them, you realize that the highest best use of your time would involve delegating, building teams, building systems so that you can free yourself up to focus on the strategy and the high level stuff.

West: Definitely. And that’s the highest paid stuff. And most people are not willing to do it. And if you’re willing to do what most people are not willing to do, then you’ll get results that most people don’t get.

Will: Absolutely. All right, on that note why don’t we sign off today because we’re almost out of time. But thank you, West, for your insights and for your story. And I know that everyone listening on the call will get a lot out of it.

West: It’s an absolute pleasure, Will. And if anyone at all wants to contact me, I’m happy for you to pass out my details. I really enjoy and respect what you’re doing, Will, online. And yeah, if I can be of assistance in any way, shape or form to you or your clients, don’t hesitate to contact me.

Will: Many thanks.

West: Cheers.

Will: Cheers, West.